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Wednesday, February 10, 2010

Lolbringer VS God Tower

I mentioned offhandedly that I took the Nightbringer out of my 1500 point Necron army in lieu of a Monoloth in a post last night and some people have asked why so I thought I'd break it down for you guys. For the record, I'm not totally for or against either of the C'tan in any sized army, if you can make it work, more power to you. This is just why I, personally, chose not to.

Most people put the Nightbringer (or Deceiver) in their armies because either they think the model looks really freaking sweet or that just from reading the codex, he sounds really overpowered. Well, they are gods, technically. And although the idea of having a really overpowered god running around the battlefield destroying everything is really appealing, I've found that in practice, it doesn't really work out that well in a small/medium-sized army.

One of my biggest problems with the Nightbringer is that C'tan can not attach themselves to friendly units because of Above All Others. This is a problem for Necrons because one of their blaring weaknesses is being pretty weak units in melee. So I want an army of units that support each other so that I can take the minimal amount of losses, and the Nightbringer offers pretty much no bonuses whatsoever to the rest of the army. On the same note, his attacks, like Gaze of Death, don't discern between friendly and enemy units. My 1500 point army list has two basic parts: sacrificial units that go into melee as tar pits or distractions, and then the large majority, which is strong ranged units that I want to keep from ever seeing close combat as they pick off everything else. So obviously, I want to get those melee tar pits out there to tie down enemy units as fast as possible. This brings up a second point, being that the Nightbringer, although capable of functioning as a tar pit, is SLOW. He's really easy to avoid getting into CC with completely, and although he has decent ranged attacks, you basically end up with a really expensive single unit running around the table trying to chase down things and making itself a huge target to be singled out and picked off. It's possible to send a unit of Scarab Swarms ahead of the Nightbringer to hold enemies in CC while he catches up, but I find a cheaper alternative is to attach the Swarms to a Destroyer Lord with a Lightning Field, which moves a lot faster, and can be just as annoying.

This leads to my primary argument against the Nightbringer in a 1500 army, which is Phase Out. Most people in friendly games will agree to not use the Phase Out rule since it's outdated, but it's still a totally valid tactic, and if you're in a tournament, you can darn well bet your bottom dollar the opponent's going to use every advantage he has against you, ESPECIALLY Phase Out. So when you play Necrons competitively every point is precious because you want to make sure you don't end up with too few Necron type units and that you keep as many of them alive as you can. That being said, the Nightbringer is REALLY EXPENSIVE. He's 360 points, that's the price of 20 Warriors or 7 Destroyers.

My alternative to the Nightbringer is the Monolith. A Monolith costs 235 points, which is still a big chunk, but it is infinitely more versatile. Monoliths can function just as well as a distraction as a Nightbringer, are twice as tough, and provide amazing support for the rest of the army with the abilities to teleport units out of CC and provide cover if necessary. It still moves really slow, and can be just as easily ignored, but it can do a lot more ranged damage than the Nightbringer, so it doesn't really need to get into melee, but if it does, the Monolith is arguably the hardest thing in the game to kill.

Here's an article that elaborates more on the Nightbringer's pro's and con's. As for just plain Necron tactics, I think this guy is a lot better at explaining than I am. Again, I must give props to Paul, he sends me a lot of these links that I post and helped me sort out a lot of bugs in my army. One of the best things to do when building an army is talk about it to someone else who plays the game and knows the rules, it's always good to get a second perspective.

So speaking of second perspectives, I'd like to hear your opinions. 1500 point army, Nightbringer or Monolith?


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  2. personlay i say neither because its exstremly easy to kill a monalith and all u have to do i tieup the c'tan with a tar pit.so13 worors or almost 5 destroyes would be more tacticly sound. the destroyers are always goodf or turbo bustin last turn to killin light tanks and monsterous creature. the worios are good to becaus 2 out of 3 games will be an objective basses mission so they will help um more thana c'tanor monalith. (sorry if i spelled stuff wrong,im not much of a writer.)

  3. I've always found the Deceiver to be a better C'tan choice, personally, for his utility. However, given you have only 1500 points to play around with, I'd take the Monolith. Its ability to bring warriors back to the table with a secondary WBB roll, is key. Plus, the more time an enemy spends on trying to kill the Monolith, is less he/she is spending on your warriors or other essential pieces of your army.

  4. 1st, i dont play necrons so this is just my opinions from seeing them on occasion.

    If i had to choose, i would probably say monolith. However the only way ive seen it used is to plop it in the middle of the board and distract people, and that usually doesnt work. but using it as a safety for your troops is an interesting idea. i'll have to look into it.

    the c'tan i dont really have an opinion on though. i believe you are correct when you say they are too easy to avoid, and too slow to catch anything. once though i was on the opposite end of a deceiver and he was fairly annoying to try and deal with.

    also to note, that gregory james has a decent point in that more warriors/destroyers could also be helpful for the troops/necron rules.

    but the thoughts are nice, thanks for the ideas.


  5. That really depends on your army concept. In my opinion Necrons have two reasonable concepts at hand.
    1st: Take 3 Monos in a small (under or equal to 1500 points) game. Then add 1 or 2 Lords w/ Regeneration Orb and some other funny things and mix it up w/ as many Warriors as you can.
    (At my first 40k tournament (1350 Points) I had a really hard time vs this kind of list. I played Tyras and my only chance to win was Phase Out, which I only did because my opponent made an error...)
    2nd: Take a C'tan and as many (light) Destructors as you can. You are mobile and no enemy wants to mess up with a C'tan on his long way to the juicy targets.

    Just my experiences while playing against Necrons w/ different armies.



  6. If you're looking for competitivness I'd go for the Monolith. People crap their pants when they see one on the table, I know I do. In my gaming circle Necrons are so rare that people panic because they aren't sure how to deal with them.

    I put things in my armies usually because they look cool or I like the unit background. So I'd have either the Nightbringer or both a Nightbringer and Monolith.

  7. I would use the points on H. Destroyers actually, using regular Destroyers to screen. On the downside they are not as tough as a mono or Nightbringer. On the upside they are more mobile, have longer range, are easier to place in cover (very important in 5th ed,)and count as "Necrons" which is a big boon for us 'crons..

  8. Monolith. Or Deceiver. The Nightbringer is a huge points sink.

  9. At 1500 points I'd lean more towards destroyers and blocks of Warriors and Immortals, with Lords kitted out to run interference (destroyer Lords coupled with Wraiths kill in CC) or support (a lord with a Veil to blip infantry away from melee and towards objectives). Depp striking a Monolith forward and using that to rely-teleport your infantry around is a nasty trick,but unless your other units have been hosing their anti-tank with fire in the mean time, it's going to result in a dead Monolith.

    Short answer: spam Destroyers, Heavy and regular.

  10. Nightbringer blows chunks. I used to wield him and after the 3rd death at the hands of Grazskull I decided a monolith was better. Easier to keep out of Grazskulls reach (except when Prophet of WAAAHG is used) so the powerclaw is weak and I can use the Monolith to pull critical ranged units out of danger so they can "shoot 'em up" again.

    Monolith FTW!

  11. I would run the deceiver and hide him behind a monolith. Move the monolith forward and when your opponent gets to close come out from behind the monolith and say hello. This works better at higher point games where you have two monoliths side by side. I like having the deceiver to help keep your opponents from running forward ignoring your monoliths and phasing you out by assaulting your troops. I tried to play without my deceiver one tournament and it was pretty ugly for me. As far as it being easy to bring down a monolith that guy is crazy. DT test is the best way to immobilize one, I know that first hand.

  12. Heya.

    I'm new to 40k, but have a Necron army I've played twice against Orcs. I used my Monolith and really liked it so I pretty much agree with ravan12.

    I don't have any C'tan so I don't really have an educated guess.

  13. You have it right. C'tan is a joke. He's too many points in one basket that is too slow. He's easy to avoid and that leaves him spending most of the game trying to do something -- which is not what you want for something so pricey.

    Monolith are hard to destroy (AV14 anti-Lance). They also can help keep your warriors out of combat. You just have to be careful because they are a expensive.

    The best way to kill Cron's is to force phase out. This rule was very much needed in 4th Due to how powerful Necron were when their weapons could hurt vehicles. Now that they can't... well the rule just hurts you. Until a new dex, you just have to live with it, which means taking lots of warriors.

  14. I think 360 points would be better spent on destroyers and immortals but then again I shelved my 'crons years ago. As an interesting aside,I'll be playing against Necros this sunday with my genestealer/trygon heavy 'nid army. I tried to give him the option for an unconditional surrender but he wasnt having it...poor guy.

  15. @Sean of the Dead:

    that just sounds mean, why not take some termagants or warriors. make it interesting. also beware the gauss flayers. stealers are only armor 5+ now for good. just my 2 cents though.


  16. I'll be running with a 20man hormie squad as well,I dont have any of the more elaborate conversions yet (I'm lazy) so I gotta run what I got. I havent made my prime yet so I wont be using warriors...HT w/3 guard,2 6man yealer broods,20 hormies,2x12 genie broods,20 termies,4 ravs,2xtrygon primes and a mawloc. Nothing too threatening, I just want to hug those crons!

  17. Zephri, just wanted to drop a note. You're not the only gamer girl out there! Grats on the fame =)

  18. Something else you might try is running 3 wraiths together to take out some armour quickly if you are having problems with front armour 13. You can get across the board and hide in terrain. When assaulting a vehicle you hit it on the rear armour with 12 strength 6 hits on the charge. This tactic is under copyright protection, but I will let you use it. This also works pretty good if you run a destroyer lord with it that has a warscythe. Just a thought if you are looking to try something new.

  19. Thanks for all your input so far, I love hearing new and interesting tactics. :)

    @Shelexie: Great to hear from a fellow gamer girl, rock on!

    @Big Whit: I used to run 3 wraiths in my army with the D. Lord, I always had problems with them being picked off too fast, but it just might've been bad luck. I've gotten a couple emails that have made me reconsider their usefulness.

  20. I've debated this a lot over the last couple of years. Honestly, I think I'd just spend the points on more Warriors. But in the end, I've vowed not to spend any more money on Necrons until the new codex comes out. I don't think they are a crap army by any means (I just played a game with them this past weekend) but I don't want to invest in models that I may or may not want to use when a new codex inevitably comes around.